some questions on trading with Gary's system I have not seen covered here

Hey everyone,

I came across Gary Williams 1-5 info recently..some old audio cd's and course book from a friend of a friend a long time ago. I have been studying the material and practicing for about 3-4 months now. There are a few things I seem to have the most trouble with. First off, Gary says you should follow no more than 5 expert stocks (fewer the better) and have a trading basket of i believe a maximum of 16. He also emphasizes the importance of trading in front of a known event/news item. With so few stocks we are supposed to follow, does anyone seem to have trouble finding news or events circulating around the stocks in their trading basket? My other issue i am running into is when doing calls/puts based on the news. It seems that most of the movement caused by a news event happens within the first trading hour...if lines are crossing on decision charts and we are to wait to get into a trade until after seeing a pullback on the action it seems that we will have missed most the move from the news item we are trading around... I know that I am missing something here and i am pretty new to all of this. Since this info is based off the original 1-5 back from 2002 I think I am safe to ask for some general pointers here without anyone having to violate an NDA agreement. I know he says the fewer stocks you follow the better, but i have also heard he then later says to follow more. The main issues I am having are in regards to being able to trade using the news. Aren't the markets faster paced than they were back in 2002 making the parameters he taught back then dated, or are the principles regarding dissemination of news to investors relatively the same? I am signed up for his class in August but I would love to hear others input in the meantime if there is anyone out there willing to share.

Gary has changed the way he trades quite a bit since 2002.

He doesn't do anymore intraday stuff. No five minutes plays, no sling shot trades and no trades off 55 min charts. He also does not trade the news.... EVER!!!!
I said you were signed up for class in Aug. GOOD!!!... DO NOT TRADE THE NEWS!!! Don't worry about any of the intraday stuff he used to teach. He doesn't teach it any longer, because it's to much like a job,and the stress it a lot higher. Just don't mess around with any of that intra day stuff. Get to class and get the info right. Clear your mind of everything you think you know about the markets and trading and investing. If he isn't teaching it, you don't need to know it. Just clear your mind and learn to bake Gary's cake, his way.

that is kind of what i was hoping to hear..the 55m charts have been driving me nuts and trying to do news plays the way he used to teach them didn't really seem to be getting me anywhere.Thank you for taking the time to respond, its good to see a good group of people out there that are familiar with what Gary teaches and willing to help each other. Definitely lots of mixed feelings it seems but i think its important to keep an open mind. I am looking forward to taking the class in August. Is the 1-5 book list or any of the daily practice stuff still relevant? I have read quite a few of them, was going to dive into profitable candlestick here shortly but i dont want to waste time on anything that isnt going to work with his system. just trying to read material and or practice in ways that would be more relevant to the way he is trading these days.

There is a slightly different book list now. Mostly you want to you read what Gary calls, "mindset books". You can skip the ones about the stock market or books about the "technical" stuff. He will be your book about the stock market as he puts it. Like I said before, clear your mind about what you "think" you know about the markets and trading and investing. You'll do a lot better. If you try to take what you already know and add it to what he teaches it'll make you worse not better and your growth will take a lot longer. STOP watching financial media. Heck the news in general really. Local news is okay, but that mess from MSNBC, FOX NEWS, and CNN should be avoided. Basically any network that spends their day and night talking about politics should be avoided at all cost.

Often times there are people (like me years ago) that were trading and investing on their own for a bit, and then we take what Gary has taught and try to add it to what we were already doing. Usually you end up with a big mess when you do that, so don't. Many times Gary tells people NOT to do something and it turns out that is the very thing they ARE doing. Since they think they know better, they get frustrated with him and his system and go out of their way to prove him wrong, only to end up proving him right. Being overly consumed with Volume is one example that comes to mind.


My ONLY negative with the course has always been the amount of time Gary wastes with stupid stories about TFT, or some "Navy Seal" person that he has become friends with. I suppose that if I lied and said I was a Seal he'd want to be my friend too. But I won't tell that lie.

It just amazes me that there are so few living Navy Seals in this world today, yet you seem to bump into a new one at every social gathering. Sometimes I just have to call bulllshit. Hell even the man that started TFT was fully exposed for lying about being a Navy Seal. And all this crap about TFT being taught to Navy Seals is just that.... crap. Now I'm sure that there have been people in the "Seal community" that have gone to a TFT course on their own accord, but as far as the Dept of the Navy providing funding and training for TFT, again I have to call bullshit.

Oops... my apologies. I kinda got on a little soap box there for a moment. I'm sorry, back on topic now..

Just don't worry about the old stuff anymore. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, it just means that the new stuff is better, and because it's not intra-day you don't have to babysit a trade. Like Gary says, he isn't done learning himself, so we aren't either.

I haven't heard much about TFT or anything in regards to the Navy Seal stuff Gary has done, but I can imagine he probably spends an extensive amount of time telling some kinds of stories. Even listening to the original 1-5 he spends an impressive amount of time completely off topic! haha. Somehow always finds a way to relate it back to the course though, at least it keeps things somewhat interesting as he piles on all the info!

And yeah I understand, most of what I have been doing up to this point in regards to the stock market has been related in some form to the information provided by Gary years ago. Glad to know that I don't have to pay attention to the talking heads on CNBC anymore! and not needing to babysit trades on the 55m chart will be super nice. I was always wondering how exactly he planned on transitioning away from that since from the way he used to teach it, the summertime trading zone represented a larger portion of the year and relied heavily on entries from the 55's. Glad to know we wont be needed those anymore...and removing the need to watch news for 2 hrs every night defiantly feels like it takes a huge weight off the course load.

Similar situation as above. Attended the S1 in January, planning to take the S2, S3 in June/August.

I do have a few basic questions:

Question 1:
Entry on the close of the first candle is straightforward, no more action charts.

However, if you only need to look at the market (during market hours), specifically, after the close of the first candle, when do you pull the trigger on trades indicated by the close of the second candle? I'm struggling with what to do with the futures the next day, do i put the order in at 9:31, or is it a simple put a "good for day" in at the closing price.

Question 2:
In looking at the trade documentation example #1 from the January S1 class, a 11/24/2017 put was purchased, for a trade with entry on 11/7/2017. This seems to violate the simple rule "buy as much time as possible". Is my assumption that this rule is dramatically modified for RTP students?

One of the main differences that I see from the earlier classes until now, is that "buy time" is much further out. The consequence is that these options are dramatically more expensive.

thougths?

thanks

I'll try to answer as best I can.

These classes are setup in a "crawl, walk, run" format, so DON'T get ahead of yourself and try to progress to fast. Learn each class and master the things needed to master BEFORE adding on things from following classes. The things that you need to learn don't have to be perfect, but you do need to be able to "own" them as your own before adding on to them. Don't be in a hurry to get perfect.

Question 1: The next morning at the open.

If you haven't entered by 11 or so, let it go. Especially in the summer time. Why would you care about the futures? If the decision to enter came at 4pm the day before what does it matter what the Futures are doing? It doesn't. You already made the decision the evening before?

Question 2: Yes things do evolve and modify as you move along up into other classes. Which is why I made the first statement.

Appreciate the quick response. Your answers clear it up. thanks!

I think i assumed incorrectly that you could put the order in the night before based on the candle closing, and was thinking I could get hosed if the futures were indicating a dramatic swing the other way. Also, I think I'm confusing "you only need to see the charts at the close of the first candle" versus being able to execute a trade during market hours.

For your level there are only two places to enter or exit a trade. 9:30am, or 1:23pm. After 4pm you are checking to see if you have a position to enter or exit the next morning. Gary says you have a window of 30 mins or so. Just cause he types really slow.

@manin,

You have been provided some really solid advice. Too bad this forum doesn't allow upvotes for the answers given. One thing I would like to add. Once you learn to do this Gary's way, you shouldn't worry about making a decision based on big charts the night before and entering at 9:31 the next morning, regardless of the futures. Part of the original 1-5 work was to teach you that if you truly have a big chart trade, the small market vibrations do not matter. It rarely goes against you more than a 1 to 1.5, maybe 2 days. Big chart trades last longer than that. I'm not suggesting that you sit around and watch your account constantly go to zero. You have to be smart as there are 9/11 type events but those are rare. Continue doing as instructed and your confidence will build. Eventually you will get to a point where you let a lot of trades go even though you pretty much know what's going to happen as the trade is not worth your time. You only trade the "knife at your family's throat" trades. If you continue taking the courses you will also learn there are different thought processes based on your ability, your schedule and what is expected for different levels of experience. As RR pointed out, at your level there are only two times to pull the trigger. Get good at that first to the point of being bored and then you can work on tweaking the process based on what is taught in later classes. Best of luck!

NCT

Sorry, just went back to re-read the post. If I could make one recommendation, bust your butt to get as good as you can with S1 info between now and later this summer. Then you will be ready to start layering in the S2 stuff.

Hi,
I was here several years ago. First I was Darcy, then Darcy 2 because I couldn't remember my password now I am Darcy 3 well because I couldn't remember my password again. I have come here from time to time to read how everyone is doing. I see some old faces and see some new ones.

I have read where you have gotten your hands on GW's 1-5 classes. They still work. GW has advanced on but his 1-5 still works. I am a 1-5 student and took his advance class. I stopped there. I have two walls in my office covered with trading books, some recommended by GW some not recommended by GW.

I found I really only need 2 books on trading and 1 million on fear.

I am a short chart trader. I like it better. I do not like my money tied up long. I sleep so much better at night knowing exactly where it is. I do not trust the market AT ALL! I know how that sounds but 2008 taught me "Go on take your money and run!" OUCH! So I take my money, pocket it, and smile, smile, smile.

About news trades....You are to ONLY practice news trades. News trades can include any stock you hear news on. They are not to be only your selected stocks. I have however traded real money on the news but not necessarily a specific stock I hear news on. i.e. AAPL, or MU etc.

I don't always base my trades on candle movements but almost always base my trades on moving averages and that includes bollinger bands.

I'll give you an example June 19, 2018 VZ bought call off signal on 5 chart @ 9:32 sold VZ @ 11:39. I was able to purchase 40 contracts @ .81 and sold them @ 1.25. I was happy. My call was cheaper because of the "down" the day before. If you scoll back and look at the following charts you can clearly see the trade using the following... 3, 5 and 8 chart, moving average of GW's and 20, 10, 5 moving average. 20 moving average was my support. GW's bollinger band setting.

Note the bollinger band squeeze. That really was a big part of this trade with the moving averages that made me scream with delight and buy that many contracts.

If you scroll back and look for me you'll see I erased all of how I traded. Things just started to get way out of hand and I got weighted down with way too many questions that I simply did not have time for. I know I didn't have to answer but I always felt obligated. I use a simple technique. I use simple charting, my S/O combined GW's with what we learned and it worked for us.

I also like trading around earnings. My earnings studies are over around the stocks I trade. I mark my charts 7 days before earnings is to be reported and 7 days before dividends. I use different colors to mark my charts for those reports. That way I know in advance that the report is coming.

BTW if I were you I would add at least 1 DOW stock to my basket. I have 2 which are BA and HD. As you get better you can increase your basket. I have a main (11 stocks and QQQ, DIA, SPY) and then 7 other baskets of stocks. I find at least one trade a day either in the morning or in the afternoon.

If you haven't been told......DO NOT TRADE ON MARGIN!! NEVER, EVER, EVER, TRADE ON MARGIN NOT NOW NOT EVER. If your account is set up on margin get it off of margin. To trade on margin means you are trading on borrowed money! BIG...HUGE...MAJOR MISTAKE to ever trade on margin!

I am sorry but I will not share how I trade. I don't mean that to sound rude but I did that for a while and I got really blown away with questions. Every time someone new came I'd have to repeat all over again how I did "xyz" until I just could stand it anymore. I don't see how GW stands it! Good heavens just break down trades and study them like I use to do!

I come here every now and then and read. But I just wanted to pass along that you can use GW's 1-5 and can make it from there but you really REALLY have to put your nose to the grind stone.

Taking more classes doesn't mean you'll get better. STUDYING READING, APPLYING, LEARNING, And beating back fear, getting to the point where you are more right than wrong will bring you success. It will take time and effort. Believe me if the world's best traders are wrong 50% of the time or more...you will be too! BUT YOU CAN BE GOOD AT THIS IF YOU WORK IT!

FEAR will be your BIGGEST challenge!

Man when I first started I'd be up until 3 and 4 in the morning studying charts, going over and over my trades that failed. Printing out my charts. Reading books on GW's list and watching Youtube. Doing earnings, history, numbers rolled in my head until I dreamed I was a number. Man oh man...it was worth it. I'd look at trades I saw people do on CNBC and look at the chart and study and study them until they were burned into my brain. I'd figure out how they figured they would work. I'd figure out what worked for me because sometimes what worked for someone else wasn't what fit me. You need more than good luck. You have to find what fits you and stick to it. S/O and I found it.

OMG, Darcy!!!!!!!!!!!

It's so awesome to see you on the board again. Welcome back!

Hi RichieRick,

I pray all is going well with you and trading. S/O and I are doing well. I just wanted this person to know 1-5 does still work but you really have to knuckle down and work at it. I've been going since 2004. Picked up new things threw out other things and S/O and I have what works for us.

Great to see some new faces. Keep going!

Darcy!!!!!!!!!!!

I have so wanted to thank you and didn't think I would ever get the opportunity. Your help in what you posted has been golden. Also all the others during that time you were all here helping us with your advice and comments.

Thank you from all that is within me!

I am only doing GW's old stuff and your added E. Short chart trader. After 4 years of hard work staring at the charts and working every day, I can read the charts. I can see what you see. Focused hard work!

I will always be forever grateful for your kindness and support in wanting to help people. I think there are a lot of people just like me that stayed quiet and just learned as you were teaching. I tried other things people posted but always came back to the foundation.

GW, you, and all the others have changed my life for the better. Good good job.

Oh thank you! That means a lot. You will never know how much that touches me. I'll share with S/O who really found the E and taught me. He is my gem. I really stayed away because I just got over whelmed and just found my trading was falling off.

I think simple is best. Too much stuff always seemed to make my bread fall! Know what I mean?

Darcy! Because of you it got me back into the swing of things! Im so glad to see you post and that you are doing well. Please please please dont forget your password again

I will stop by from time to time after my trades. I am glad you are back into the swing of things. Practice, practice and find what works for you. Not everyone is a trader. Some of us are investors. I was listening to a story a few days ago about a man who had worked all his life. He passed away and he had a will. He left his grandchildren millions of dollars. His neighbors were rather surprised. He had invested in stocks that we see everyday, stocks of companies that we never really think about such as McCormick. It just so happened that one that day June 28, 2018 McCormick popped $3.32. Who would have thought back when he bought it he paid less than that for it? It reminded me of when I first started to learn trading. I was trading AMZN when it was $35! PCLN and AAPL when they were dirt cheap! Hind sight chee!

Darcy ! we are glad you are back. your comments and insights are very valuable to me and to others here. Have a great day and great weekend too !!!

Thank you for the kind words. S/O and I trade almost every day. Traded today as a matter of fact. We still trade small charts and use the E. It just works best for us.

We are glad to see you back. you are a great help to people with such a kind heart.

Oh thank you. I will pop in as I said. There are great folks here.

I'm an old Gary Williams classes 1-5 student... I'm curious, did anyone catch this pullback and buy puts off of Gary's newer, big chart style of trading. I am not trying to get any proprietary info, just curious about the mindset and manner of the type of trading he is teaching now and if anyone caught this selloff.

@djp18 Quick answer to your question is no, I did not buy puts which means I cannot provide details your looking for to support the new style of trading. The longer answer is that due to circumstances outside my control, I was forced to make a decision in early 2016 to make a complete career change. That decision forced me to pull back back from a lot of active trading the first year and basically forgo any market involvement the past year with the exception of occasional practice. I'm very excited that I now have an opportunity to move back into the market with a fresh perspective.

Given all of that background, yes, the new info taught between 2013 - 2016 would have absolutely put you in the right mindset to profit off of this pullback. Using market charts as an example, on 8/30, both the $INDU and $SPX gave indications of a pullback based on info GW teaches now. Actually, he's been teaching it all along but students did their own thing and he is much more matter of fact now "do this / not that" $COMPQ was looking like it wanted to go on 8/30, wasn't cooperating at first but finally signaled on 9/4. Anyone that has taken the new classes, especially RTP, should be able to see exactly what I'm talking about. The only thing that could possibly have thrown a student off track is if they got caught up in historical market tendencies (i.e., market calendar). That's why I'm excited. A few years ago I still had the pain of learning to do this and bad habits picked up along the way. Even after taken the new classes and knew what to do the bad habits would occasionally creep in.

As an aside, I've been focused one thing over the past week. In the RTP classes he provides occasional trades. Sometimes he walks you through candle-by-candle at each decision point providing his thoughts. Somewhere around 2015 he provided a list of stocks for the entire year of 2014 that had good trade setups. Approximately 5 to 10 for each month with Dec having between 10 to 20. I had already made copies of the entries for each trade based on when GW said you should have entered. I added a few more trades provided in class for a list of just over 100. I then went back and made copies of the charts to see what those stocks looked like a day or two before the trade signaled. I already know what entry and exit looks like. The goal was to re-train my brain on how the chart looks right before the trade signal. I can tell you with great confidence that all the charts had a very similar look and feel. Immediately after finishing my research on Sat, I asked myself the same question you just posted in this forum. The answer was "Yes", if I had followed what was taught objectively and using the patterns I noticed in my research, I absolutely would have been looking for some type of pullback that recently occurred.. The only thing that would have kept me out is if I had followed the old me that relied too heavily on market tendencies instead of paying attention to the charts and doing what the market is doing. Best of luck!

NCT



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 08:20AM by NCTrader.

NCTrader, thanks for the response. Definitely explained to me what i was wondering. Best of luck to you also.